ITSM Antipodean Podcast – Episode 30

Tug of War: Service & Project Management & Life as an ATO – ITSM Antipodean Podcast Episode 30 from ServiceSphere on Vimeo.


Month in Review

Simone’s highlight – HDAA and itSMF Australia announce partnership for the LEADIT 2013 Conference. This year a stream dedicated to support service teams – service desk, desktop and other resolver groups. Highlights included podcast episode

Rob immersed himself in the Devops community. Attended the New Zealand Devops conference in Auckland. It was Geek city! Met Alistair Coburn who helped craft the Agile Manifesto. Rob was also a guest on Devops café podcast.

Service Management and Project Management and Life as an ATO

Special guest Scott Spence. Scott is the Director of Course Sales and CEO of CC Learning. CC Learning provides PRINCE2 and MSP training. Course Sales provides a software offering to make the business of selling training easier, more efficient and cheaper.

Course Sales originated in New Zealand in 1996. In UK it moved into the Prince2 space. CC Learning was then created to resell and provide Prince2 training. Moved into Australia and started to sell more and more courses.

It’s not PMBOK that PRINCE2 needs to worry about – it’s about the apathy. PRINCE2 works along side PMBOK. PRINCE2 is a structured way of delivering projects whereas PMBOK has more of a “how do you operate as a project manager” flavour. PRINCE2 is not for project managers! It is for the people who manage the sponsors on projects. PRINCE2 takes control of project expenditure and outcomes.

Rob and Scott agree that PMBOK is a tool kit whereas PRINCE2 is a structured methodology. Simone challenges with what students say in the classroom. Scott says that some people say PRINCE2 could be maybe “too” structured whilst others say it should provide more information e.g. how do I do it?

2009 version of PRINCE2 breaks down the activities into actions. It is rather light on the HOW and strict on the WHAT. PMBOK tells you more about the “how to do it”.

Karen believes this is very like ITIL – strong on the what to do but not on the how to do it.

It is the combination of the two that forms the toolbox e.g. what to do (PRINCE2) and the how to do (PMBOK).

Combining PRINCE2 and AGILE is an interesting situation. These are some ‘real’ questions being asked by many organisations.

Simone asks why there is no one location that maps all of the methodologies and frameworks to each other. Rob wanted COBIT to be the one framework to rule them all.

Rob jokes about the ITIL team at OGC not crossing the hall to speak to the PRiNCE2 people. Did the PRINCE2 team get all the good car park spots???? Where they in the same building?

The team explore the disconnect between ITSM (ITIL) projects and Project Management.

The output of Service Portfolio Management should be programmes and projects that need project management. The outputs from Service Strategy and inputs to Service Design should be projects. ITIL mentions PRiNCE2 once.

Someone should MELD ITIL and PRINCE2 together. Scott wonders if the disconnect is on purpose. Many The Cabinet Office don’t want to restrict people using ITIL or PRINCE2!

The first version of PRINCE2 to be managed as a project was in 2009. Karen believes the same for ITIL V3.

Scott talks about some of the challenges of being an ATO. It’s a tough world out there! The Cabinet Office, TSO and APMG trio will look for you wherever you may be. They could be a little bit more relaxed. Scott has been threatened legally on a number of occasions for doing nothing in particularly wrong.

Rob reckons no one values knowledge any more. People are on the courses because they want the certification. Scott thinks that is ok. There are different motivators for different people. People who Scott trained many years ago are now in positions of authority and are now looking back on their training and wanting to apply it in the workplace.

Rob asks why should ITSM people listening to this podcast go and learn about PRINCE2. Scott says the main reason is that as organisations realise that it is benefits that matter, IT people have to understand why decisions to do projects or not are made.

Picks of the Month

SHIFT. The hub for all things Service Management.

ooVoo. Rob hates Goole Hangouts with a passion. ooVoo is solid.

Presefy. Load your presentation on to the web and anyone can watch it. You control it from your smart phone.

Mr Rob England’s SKEP chats.

Booby(s) of the Month

Booby of the company not the person. IT Asset Manager fired for License Shortfall.

Computer giants, Microsoft, Adobe and Apple, probed on Australian prices.

Tweeter that shall remain nameless – “why do only 15% of companies execute their strategies well?” Rob says that this is because this is the distribution curve so it will always be the case.


The team will record the Episode 31 on 24th April 2013.

Suggestions for guests and podcast content to

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